Curse

Alpha The Omega · Feb 17, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

I remember the Dervish being a dominate player in alliance battles, and now since GW has done so many changes to the dervish skill set. It seems they have taken all their strengths and weakened them. Does anyone agree and has any one found good builds that work in Alliance Battles and other PvP areas, besides wounding strike PvX builds? I can use the help?

Icy The Mage · Feb 17, 2009, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Lyssa's Aura Dagger Spammer.

Tyla · Feb 17, 2009, 07:21 PM // 19:21

You say they have been weakened, yet their strongest build is the Wounding Striker (which is really powerful, just outclassed because of Anet making things even stronger) and you refuse to play it yet it's the strongest build?

Please god...

If anything Dervs need to be killed. So do Assassins, and so does Primal Rage and WE. I would go on but I really can't be bothered.

iVendetta · Feb 17, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Which specific skills were nerfed?

Massive Impulsa · Feb 17, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Well, the only nerf was Chilling Victory, the Activation time on Eremite, Mystic.. Altough you have to remember they were really powerfull in GvG - VoD Meta, the hit 3ppl in one sweep is really powerfull.. But as said above, Warriors Endurance etc has taken the Dervish roles pretty much...:>

ele pl · Feb 17, 2009, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Avatar of Lyssa + unblockable Sin chain is still viable. Wounding Strike is still powerful. You can also try buffed Reaper's Sweep.

iVendetta · Feb 18, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

Avatar of Lyssa + unblockable Sin chain is still viable.

True, but it has lost popularity due to the countless loopholes in terms of the template itself. Hosting as a secondary assassin and wielding menacing daggers, it is only blatantly obvious for it to furiously shred squishies to ground beef. However, a simple health degeneration or any hex comparable to [[Insidious Parasite] will backfire the shredding tyrannosaurus-derv into a fresh corpse for one of those despicable Bone Horrors.

The main problem with the build is that the attack chain itself leeches off half the template, leaving almost no room for utility/survival.

Hence, it should not really be considered a suitable build for PvP. Back to the scythe-wielding-hooded-warriors-of-faith.

ele pl · Feb 18, 2009, 11:49 AM // 11:49

@up
Yes, thats true. But ohwait, skills like Insidious parasite are able to counter every melee like you say. Speaking about utility/survival: last time i remember, that template had some enchantments like [skill]mystic regeneration[/skill] or [skill]mystic vigor[/skill]. That is some form of survival. Yes, that might be not enough, but who brings more selfheal even to low pvp arenas like Ra/JQ/Fa/AB?
But i need to agree that theres no room for utility, and its painful. Snare, kd or something like that would be very useful. But instead of it, you got unblockable sin chain, 33 % ias, +20 energy from avatar, and additional damage.

jEdEyE TrIkz · Jun 03, 2009, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You say they have been weakened, yet their strongest build is the Wounding Striker (which is really powerful, just outclassed because of Anet making things even stronger) and you refuse to play it yet it's the strongest build?

Please god...

If anything Dervs need to be killed. So do Assassins, and so does Primal Rage and WE. I would go on but I really can't be bothered.

Umm? Dervs sins, WE, and PR need to be killed? Its just that 14 year olds play these classes alot just slap a wiki on go into RA thinking their hot shit and talk trash. This gives them a bad name and makes people turn their heads at these classes as being brute force and not taking alot of thought.

Since your looking for an alternative build thats fun and can kill i suggest this: RA: D/W
-VoS (Vow of Stength) -oh yeah im going to get alot of shit for this but i like the skill in RA, if you play your targets right you can do some serious damage
-Victorious sweep Excelent dmg and the hp boost isnt bad either
-Twin Moon Sweep Also hp gain also with VoS and Mirage it hurts alot
-Wild Blow stance Removal and boosted unblockable crit hurts
-Mirage Cloak well this skill is going to be used for primarily a dmg spike however its also useful for just some defensive
-Attackers Insight your going to need this because this build will eat your energy
-(optional) Healing skill or IMA/IMS faithful intervention can be placed just as a safeguard
-Res sig

when using this your going to want to go in with attackers up as well as vos then once your closer hit up mirage and hit once or twice see a stance pop up quickly jsut use wild blow probably 60-100dmg then continue with twin moon sweep generally i find this dmg to vary most ive gotten is like 106 106 then 60 from mirage then victorious will hit around 89-176 and will get your hp up if pressured. thats what i got try it out its fun to run and gl

Chocobo1 · Jun 03, 2009, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by jEdEyE TrIkz

Umm? Dervs sins, WE, and PR need to be killed? Its just that 14 year olds play these classes alot just slap a wiki on go into RA thinking their hot shit and talk trash. This gives them a bad name and makes people turn their heads at these classes as being brute force and not taking alot of thought.

*blahblahblah*

The fact that Primal Rage and Warriors Endurance were killed proves you wrong. Sure, it's strong in RA but it's also overpowered in other aspects. Derv Sins not so much, but those other two were incredibly overpowered. I'd be amazed if a 14 year slapped on a wiki build, let alone played them well in RA.

reaper with no name · Jun 03, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You say they have been weakened, yet their strongest build is the Wounding Striker (which is really powerful, just outclassed because of Anet making things even stronger) and you refuse to play it yet it's the strongest build?

Please god...

If anything Dervs need to be killed. So do Assassins, and so does Primal Rage and WE. I would go on but I really can't be bothered.

Dervs need to be killed? I've got news for you; they're already dead.

Anyone with enchantment stripping can make a derv completely powerless. Honestly, the only way dervishes could be considered "good" in PvP would be if they were significantly more powerful than warriors and sins (in order to compensate for that huge weakness). Sort of like Superman with Kryptonite. But that's never going to happen, of course, so why worry?

Sirius-NZ · Jun 03, 2009, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Dervishes still get used from my understanding, but they're not a mainstay. You don't really need to rely on enchantments (or at least, keeping them) to do damage - it's just that it tends to help. Stripping an assassin or elementalist will probably debuff them of a few important things as well (considering a lot of elementalists rely quite a bit on attunements to manage their energy).

Though I'm probably thinking of builds other than the typical wounding strike + conjure cookie-cutter. If you rip the enchantments off that it isn't even going to be landing deep wound properly.

Celtus · Jun 04, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

look...yes some dervish skills have been nerfed and changed..off the top of my head, mystic regen, pious assault, mystic sweep, eremites sweep, chilling vic, mystic healing, av of grenth.

BUT. every profession has faced nerfs and adjustments, good players learn how to adapt to the state of the game, and the build gurus have no problem doing this and continually stay on top of their game.

Theres always good builds to be had with the professions, you just need to think, pvxwiki.com is just the tip of the iceberg in most cases. Just because dervishes have a weak showing on that site, build wise.. it doesnt mean there arent any great derv builds to be had.

Many dervishes try to mimic the playstyle of a warrior or assassin, or monk ( if youre running a full heal build). The truth is, dervishes are a professional which can and should transcend the traditional rock/paper/scissors situation. The dervish is like a combination of a warrior/elementalist and monk. You have the tools to be an effective support healer, an effective aoe damage dealer, with your scythe (most powerful weapon in the game), and with your spells.

A dervish shouldnt be a pushover profession as it is being played, it should be something that scares the hell out of people when its in melee range because of the amount of havoc you can unleash on everyone.

Some people need to go back to basics..our profession description:

"Serving the gods as holy warriors, dervishes stand confidently in the whirlwind of conflict. Martial techniques perfected in the deserts of Elona allow a Dervish’s scythe to lash out quickly at multiple opponents, surrounding the holy warrior with a swath of destruction. Initiates often learn spells of self-protection, prayers that rush a combatant into battle, and invocations that empower attacks with elemental fury. Masters of the profession can assume the form of a god, enacting divine will with holy blessings. Keenly aware of the conditions of a fight, a Dervish can reap great benefits by using multiple Enchantments. Wandering the savannahs and deserts of Elona, the faithful Dervish chants prayers to the earth and wind... and the fury of the sandstorm answers in response. "

Im sorry to give such a lengthy reply, im just upset at how much this profession is misunderstood. Maybe someday ill post some of my builds on here, but keep exploring the profession and hopefully youll find it rewarding. Note: if you dont like whoring and learning to manage enchantments, this profession isnt for you.

reaper with no name · Jun 04, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

There's a reason so many people attempt to play dervishes as straight melee; it's the best way for them to contribute (at least in PvE; I really don't know that much about PvP).

If you try to be a gish as a dervish, there comes the question of "why bother?". Dervishes aren't great casters, and they aren't great at melee. Sure, you can bring a hybrid build, but in general you can't nuke/heal/melee all at once. That's why the AoM + Draw Conditions build doesn't work well in practice. So if you can only do one at any given time, why waste skill slots and attribute points on other things? And out of the three, melee is the best choice for the dervish, because at least there it has a few gimmicks that can give it some edge (however small) over the competition.

That's not to say that the dervish can't do other things (quite the contrary; I myself run a RoJ derv at the JQ and love it), but it's not optimal, and when people come here looking for builds, that's generally what they want.

Fall Of Sudden · Jun 05, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

@up
Yes, thats true. But ohwait, skills like Insidious parasite are able to counter every melee like you say. Speaking about utility/survival: last time i remember, that template had some enchantments like [skill]mystic regeneration[/skill] or [skill]mystic vigor[/skill]. That is some form of survival. Yes, that might be not enough, but who brings more selfheal even to low pvp arenas like Ra/JQ/Fa/AB?
But i need to agree that theres no room for utility, and its painful. Snare, kd or something like that would be very useful. But instead of it, you got unblockable sin chain, 33 % ias, +20 energy from avatar, and additional damage.

lol I bring a lot of self heal in AB, JQ, and all of those type of PVP. For chances are they are all attack and all you need to do is out live them while doing some considerable damage. RA, TA, and all those now that you need to take your enemy out really fast. But Low pvps like AB and JQ dont need really really fast if you turn a derv to a self-healing moderate damage tank, so far as i have seen it works and able to take 3 other characters and able to destroy the outposts and occasionally with luck the quarries without any help.

reaper with no name · Jun 09, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

You can't take the quarries or guard posts in JQ as a melee dervish. No matter how much self-healing you take you're dead before you can even kill one guy. If you're lucky you might hit one guy before you fall, but one hit won't kill.

shoyon456 · Jun 21, 2009, 03:38 AM // 03:38

I believe the OP is referring to how the old wearying strike + Melandru's build was nerfed into nonexistence, the Avatar of Grenth nerf (from removing enchants to being unblockable to enchanted foes), and the grenth's aura build was torn apart, and how anet has had to "nerf" certain skills of the dervish to prevent other skills abusing them. One example was Rangers using Chilling Victory. Its like an all mens club that doesn't want any scythe-wielding, ROBE wearing guys in it, and Anet has taken steps to insure that.

Yes, wounding strike is a powerful build indeed... and Rangers, Sins, and Warriors can run it as effectively if not better. This is a problem with most scythe attacks. The second problem with this is that ONLY ONE dervish build is considered "effective" in PvP, and its still not effective enough to make it into high-end PvP with other classes' builds and elite skills.

Oh, and to those that say that the ability of scythes to hit 3 enemies at once is a reason to nerf them... only idiots in PvP would fall to that. Its not that hard to spread out unless you really have no idea what you're doing, in which case you shouldn't be in PvP. Of course we all know PvE hasn't mattered since PvE only skills.

Drizzitdude · Jul 19, 2009, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Barely anything on dervs has been nerfed. Maybe you just suck. BtW PVX WIKI IS THE DEVIL COME TO DESTROY ALL ARENA FIGHTS.

Delehov89 · Jul 19, 2009, 09:58 PM // 21:58

The WS build from PvXwiki is actually pretty good but i would take dark escape for IMS since it also reduces damage by 25%

TaggSilar · Jul 21, 2009, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

You can't take the quarries or guard posts in JQ as a melee dervish. No matter how much self-healing you take you're dead before you can even kill one guy. If you're lucky you might hit one guy before you fall, but one hit won't kill.

if you think that, then you havent tried it very often. i know for a fact that my pvp derv can single handedly take down a guard post. maybe not a quarry but it can do considerable damage. i use AoB for a speed buff and armor booster and use an AoE spell to cause knockdown. then you charge in, keep enchantments up and take down the rangers at the guard post. its not very difficult. if used correctly, a dervish can be very deadly in JQ or FA